An issue about banning, and new rule?

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<B>When i grow up i wanna be like Gandalf The Grey
Jan 28, 2005
2,173
38
Canada
long story shortened
i sign to a pug in which ibm is signed and having witnessed him totally ruining about 2-3 pugs in the last 4 days or so i set my nick to x-html`iresetifibmcaptains... we get 12, i captain and then ibm captains within 2 min. so i reset the pug 12 people resign and i do the exact same thing with my nick and i captain again and ibm recaptains within 4 minutes of reaching player limit and i reset a 2nd time. the 3rd time meteor and me captain.

xb then proceeded to ban me, here's a log of questions i had for xb

[18:02:31] <html> hey x-bomb
[18:14:27] <b-bomb> hey html
[18:14:36] <html> i dont think ive broken any rules
[18:14:41] <html> DO NOT ABUSE THE !RESET commmand. People who keep hitting !reset when they are not in the current pug round or feel it's funny to annoy others will recieve a ban for as long as the admins feel is necessary for that person to learn their lesson. This also applies to other commands that the bot accepts.
[18:14:45] <html> i was signed
[18:14:52] <html> and i did not reset to annoy others
[18:14:57] <html> i reset to have a good pug
[18:15:01] <b-bomb> no
[18:15:04] <b-bomb> u reset
[18:15:15] <b-bomb> because u didnt want ibm captain
[18:15:18] <html> yes
[18:15:23] <html> thats not annoying others
[18:15:24] <html> in fact
[18:15:26] <b-bomb> if i did that everytime u captained
[18:15:32] <b-bomb> we would never get anywhere
[18:15:33] <html> i wouldnt captain then
[18:15:39] <html> if 1 person
[18:15:42] <html> tells me not to captain
[18:15:45] <html> i fucken wont
[18:15:49] <b-bomb> well the rules are not static like that im afraid
[18:15:53] <html> plus if im banned for this
[18:15:58] <html> ban ibm then
[18:15:59] <b-bomb> anyway
[18:16:03] <b-bomb> zero tolerence
[18:16:04] <html> for picking 4 non league in 1 pug
[18:16:11] <b-bomb> ibm didnt do anything wrong
[18:16:16] <b-bomb> he never even got to pick
[18:16:43] <html> k then ask me this
[18:16:46] <html> answer me this
[18:16:51] <i-bomb> enuf
[18:16:55] <i-bomb> no more
[18:16:59] <i-bomb> no debate
[18:17:02] <i-bomb> u r banned
[18:17:24] <html> Please take others into consideration when picking maps, for example, don't pick maps deliberately to upset others, for example - picking all the standard maps knowing it will annoy someone.
[18:17:32] <html> next time i see ibm captain
[18:17:40] <html> if he picks 2 to 4 non league maps
[18:17:43] <html> and i complain
[18:17:46] <html> will he be banned
[18:17:47] <html> ?
[18:18:16] <html> * Please try to pick fair teams during games - picking friends is obviously allowed, but please try to consider the game for all players, and keep teams balanced in terms of skill/teamplay.
[18:18:18] <html> or
[18:18:19] <html> even better
[18:18:23] <html> if he picks kubi
[18:18:27] <html> over sphere and dragoonz
[18:18:31] <html> and i complain
[18:18:35] <html> will he be banned?
[18:18:37] <html> cuz he hasnt
[18:19:35] <html> i want an answer to both my questions please
[18:20:50] <html> mr pug admin

anyway i've been banned for a week for genuinely trying to make the pug better for everyone.

i would still like an answer to my 2 questions about ibm from xb or another pug admin, because i remember ibm picking shit teams and many non league maps in a pug and imho that violates the rules so i'd like to know if i see that happening and complain will a ban follow or not?


a more reasonable approach to this i believe would be a new pug rule that would be something like this:
Every pug player (in a 4v4 or more) has a right to veto a single other person and prevent that person from captaining for 10 minutes following the reaching of the player limit (8, 10 or 12).

now why that rule? because of what happened today. I daresay i captain a lot, and i do take it seriously and it pisses me off (and i could name at least 3 other people that think the same) when people like ibm picks more then 1 non league maps nearly everytime he captains and always gives to say the least incomplete/hard to understand tactics due to poor english and typing instead of talking on ts, leading to incoherent defence and shit/ruined pug.

2 other applications to this rule would be..
if i captain im personally going to veto the best player of the pug (like wish) so that a captain with a skill value closer to mine captains hence fairer teams in the end
an application at large: i know i pick lavafort a lot and it seems many persons dislike it, well then heres your chance! veto me every pug and i wont be able to captain for 10 minutes giving other people the chance to captain and not pick lava.

I believe 10 minutes is a good balence between waiting forever and giving people time to captain. Because lets face it if veto was permanent we would have trouble getting captains, in most pugs it already takes around 5 minutes to get captains so 10 minutes isn't that bad to possibly ensure better pugs for everyone.
 
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That's a bit daft. IBM picks non-league maps and lets them get played. It's boring to play Desertstorm Ballistic Riv3 EVERY SINGLE PUG and this is the only way new maps get picked. I find it to be a refreshing break from the typical maplist and enjoy it when IBM captains because of this. There's no rule against picking non-league maps, and I'm sure some of us would appreciate if there were a rule to force picking non-league maps and get them tested.

Resetting because you don't like a captain is just daft. Just don't pug.
 
on a personal note i think this behavior is uncalled for from an admin and also hereby asks for x-bomb removal from the pug admin team for being unnecessarely rude and being inconsistant in his decisions.



"
<d-salva> lol @ thread
<i-bomb> wot a noob
<i-bomb> some1 tell him this is not NA pug shit
<d-sphr> tell him yourself, he's online
<i-bomb> i dont talk to noobs
<d-sphr> right
<d-sphr> ok
"

note that this post doesn't affect in any way the content of my first post
 
1 - I don't think you're in position to decide who can cap and who can't.
2 - Every captain can pick any signed player and any map from pug maplist he want's ... again it's not your decision.
3 - I'm sick of your "I will reset if ... " OR "I will cap and pick if ... " attitude. I fully support this ban.


However i must fully agree about picking fair teams but still it doesn't give you the right to abuse resets.
Next time just don't sign and i belive more ppl then you will be happy.
 
1) Ibm can captain like every other player.

2) Html if you think Ibm is not able to say his tactics in words each player can understand he still can captain.

3) The rules have been edited and its known that a reset can lead to a ban.

4) If players can vote it can also lead that the players that shall do it are not in the mood to do it.

I agree that every player that captains should try to do its personal best to make it a fun time for all.

To say Ibm doesnt do it what he thinks is fun is his kind of view and belongs to his sight of the world.

I like if players care and say what they think like you do it now. Fairness and equity are the first moral considerations
and it will be interesting to see what Ibm thinks about it.
 
ibm is a pain in the ass when he caps...he doesnt know how 2 pick teams nor maps..the other day is a good example just check the logs and u'll see we only had one league map which was balli..
 
I think that's a bit unfair to say about IBM. Picking non-league maps is something many players wish would happen more often, and I know a lot of people in UTA are interested in playing different maps. IBM doesn't captain every single pug and it doesn't hurt to play a map once that you haven't played in a while or need to learn. IBM has also justified his reasons for picking players before which might seem a bit "unfair" but he's said he prefers to pick players that pay attention to tactics. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that and again... it's not like he's captaining every pug. If you can't stand him that much then just find a sub when he captains. He's not causing anyone any harm.
 
While ibm may not be the best captain ever, at least he will cap up, unlike most people. I also agree with smant on the map points.. although if ibm is picking maps just to piss people off, then thats a different matter. However I've not seen anything to suggest he is. I've also not seen him make any particularly bad team picks, although his idea of who is good/bad may differ slightly from mine.

Basically html, it comes down to: you are not in control of the pug & you do not have the right to waste people's time because you don't think ibm is good at captaining. If everyone has a problem with him captaining, then they can make it known by changing nicks/pming an admin. If enough people are not happy, then a reset is ok.. but you threatening to reset cos 1 person capped is not acceptable.

Agree 100% with XB on this.

Oh and with regard to your "new rules"

No. Stupid idea, it will just make it even worse when trying to get people to captain, and also a lot of what you've suggested would require changes made to the pugbot, which is not gonna happen. Sorry
 
uZi said:
While ibm may not be the best captain ever, at least he will cap up, unlike most people. I also agree with smant on the map points.. although if ibm is picking maps just to piss people off, then thats a different matter. However I've not seen anything to suggest he is. I've also not seen him make any particularly bad team picks, although his idea of who is good/bad may differ slightly from mine.

Basically html, it comes down to: you are not in control of the pug & you do not have the right to waste people's time because you don't think ibm is good at captaining. If everyone has a problem with him captaining, then they can make it known by changing nicks/pming an admin. If enough people are not happy, then a reset is ok.. but you threatening to reset cos 1 person capped is not acceptable.

Agree 100% with XB on this.

Oh and with regard to your "new rules"

No. Stupid idea, it will just make it even worse when trying to get people to captain, and also a lot of what you've suggested would require changes made to the pugbot, which is not gonna happen. Sorry
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finally a pug admin that replies to this thread

fair answers,you still haven't answered 2 of my questions though

1) if in the future i see ibm, or anyone, who picks 2 non league maps or more and pm an admin saying im pissed will the captain in question be banned?
2) if i see ibm or anyone else captains and the resulting teams are clearly unfair because of wrong player pickings by a captain and i pm an admin will the captain in question be banned?

(why would question 1 deserve a ban? because theres always someone moaning when anyone picks a single non league map... imagine more then one.... plenty of ppl have left pugs in the past for that without being banned)
(why would question 2 deserve a ban? sure opinions may differ on peoples skills, and of course we cant expect every captain to know every players skill level inside out, but then when you captain if your not sure of who to pick ASK AROUND....so that teams are fair....)
 
1). Theres no "2 or more non-league maps" rule here.. it depends on the situation.. if someone is found to repeatedly pick maps with the sole intention of annoying people with them, then action can be taken. I do not see any point in setting out an exact rule here.. as with most of the pug rules, it is just "don't take the piss".

2) Again, wrong player pickings on their own do not warrant a ban... deliberately picking bad teams, with the intention of annoying other people in the pug will warrant action. People who are unsure of who to pick probably shouldn't captain. However, its getting to the point that only 3-4 people will actually cap up.. so until more people are prepared to captain regularly, we're gonna end up with problems like these.

We are not trying to ban people for any reason possible.. but if you're taking the piss trying to abuse rules, or ruin pugs for people, you'll be removed from the channel/pug for a while. Very simple really?
 
uZi said:
We are not trying to ban people for any reason possible.. but if you're taking the piss trying to abuse rules, or ruin pugs for people, you'll be removed from the channel/pug for a while. Very simple really?
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i tried to make pug better for people today and got banned for it, not that simple it seems if only negative intent warrants a ban why am I banned?
 
even tho i agree with you on some level, ur overreacting here.

Sure I've seen him pick a lot of non league maps and yes i've seen him pick ppl he likes over ppl that are way better (no offence of course). But that still doesn't give you the right to behave the way you did.
 
html said:
i tried to make pug better for people today and got banned for it, not that simple it seems if only negative intent warrants a ban why am I banned?
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No, what you did was obviously a selfish attempt to ruin the opportunity of having a decent pug (IBM captained instead of forcing people to wait for two hours! GG!) with some potentially fun maps because you and dede don't like IBM because he likes to have variety in his maplist and players who follow tactics and don't bitch 24/7.
 
brajan said:
1 - I don't think you're in position to decide who can cap and who can't.
2 - Every captain can pick any signed player and any map from pug maplist he want's ... again it's not your decision.
3 - I'm sick of your "I will reset if ... " OR "I will cap and pick if ... " attitude. I fully support this ban.


However i must fully agree about picking fair teams but still it doesn't give you the right to abuse resets.
Next time just don't sign and i belive more ppl then you will be happy.
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Thats it, just delete all the other posts and lock this thread because brajan has absolutely answered the issue with those 3 points there.

Especially number 3.

Amazes me how you try to justify your action html :lol:
 
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