42 Detention without trial (UK Politics)

  • Hey - turns out IRC is out and something a little more modern has taken it's place... A little thing called Discord!

    Join our community @ https://discord.gg/JuaSzXBZrk for a pick-up game, or just to rekindle with fellow community members.

Cutter

Carbon Allotrope
Oct 8, 2001
1,799
0
Just saw the vote - government wins by 315 to 306. Odd how that is exactly the same number of DUP MPs who all voted for the government line, and no siree, their votes weren't influenced at all by the promise of £200 million to Stormont to ease the impact of water charges, and neither were other Labour MPs bought off with promises of dosh for their pet wasteful projects if they voted for this travesty of a piece of legislation.

So, let's recap. The spooks, in the form of MI5 and MI6 have said they didn't ask for or need the 42 day period (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7442380.stm), the Lord Advocate in Scotland (http://theherald.co.uk/mostpopular....angiolini_opposes_brown_on_terror_arrests.php) and Direct of Public Prosecution in England & Wales (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...doubts-42-day-terror-detention-proposals.html) say they didn't ask for it either and don't think it is necessary, and almost all police forces said the same thing. So why is this draconian bit of legislation being foisted on us???

I mean, we're not even talking of pre-trial detention, we're talking about pre-charge detention. So, they can arrest you on "suspicion" of being a terrorist, and hold you incommunicado with no access to a lawyer or anything for up to 42 days without even needing to charge you with any crime???

I mean, even totalitarian states like Russia won't hold people for this long apparently (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2007/nov/12/terrorism.humanrights), and yet Brown is lecturing Mugabe on non-elections and China on human rights? You couldn't make it up if you tried...

And this in the light of it being revealed that local authorities are using the anti-terror provisions in RIPA (Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act) to snoop on people trying to send their kids to schools outside their area and to go through people's bins (http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/law/article4036231.ece).

With apologies to the forum rules Martz, this country is going to the fucking dogs with the bunch of socialist control freak incompetents currently in Power. I hope the House of Lords throw this piece of shit legislation out and force the Government into the embarassment of having to use the Parliament Act.

Every MP who voted for this grotesque and obscene piece of legislation should be named and shamed and brought to account over why they deem it necessary to kill off civil liberties in this manner. Because we all know that this piece of legislation is going to be abused.
 
Last edited:
Well... USA have these rules too.
You can look at it two ways:

1) If the investigation is done good they should hold them 42 days, if necessary.

2) They shouldn't start picking anyone from the street, just because he looks terroristic
 
There's a rumour that the DUP were bought by a £1.2b 'deal' (!!!) among other things.....

bbc.co.uk said:
Labour rebels said the DUP had also obtained guarantees that the government would block efforts to use the Human Embryology and Fertility Bill, currently going through Parliament, to loosen abortion rules in Northern Ireland.

I was listening to 5 Live on the way home when the result came in, and later on they interviewed, and questioned hard, some prissy MP who literally crumbled and just said "it's OK - they'll be compensated if they're not guilty".... :rolleyes:
How does compensation help when your career is shot? What happened to that pilot who was done for plotting, and then turned out to be completely innocent? He can't find work now. And that was back then, when they couldn't just drag people in, willy nilly for 42 days.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Answer_to_Life,_the_Universe,_and_Everything

Although apparently this will be laughed out of the House of Lords, so not to worry.... unless of course anyone fancies a third home somewhere with another £20k lump sum to help it along it's merry way..
 
Well... USA have these rules too.


Yes, and every law the USA has is great. Now let's all start letting the government illegally wiretap us, raise the drinking age to 21 and stick us in prison for as long as they want without bringing any charges against us or giving us a trial :clap:
 
You dont easily become a suspect of terrorism imo. It's just a way to prevent terrorist attacks (you've seen 9/11 and london)
Although 42 days is a bit long lol ( i thought it said 42 hours when typing this message, change topic title)

But still it means it will only be used in very rare cases (hopefully).
 
Yes, and every law the USA has is great. Now let's all start letting the government illegally wiretap us, raise the drinking age to 21 and stick us in prison for as long as they want without bringing any charges against us or giving us a trial :clap:

wasn't saying i like it, but just mentioning it isn't a 'new' law over countries world-wide
 
I agree with what you said about the legislation being immoral and giving the authorties too much power to detain the people as and when they choose to, without good reason but...

With apologies to the forum rules Martz, this country is going to the fucking dogs with the bunch of socialist control freak incompetents currently in Power.

"Socialism refers to a broad array of ideologies and political movements with the goal of a socio-economic system in which property and the distribution of wealth are subject to control by the public." - I'm afraid we do not have a socialist government in the UK. Of course, it depends what type of socialism you are refering to, but don't forget that Thatcher sold off most of the publicly owned utilities when she was in power. Before Thatcher this country owned a hell of alot more than it does now, and the money generated went back into the economy. She sold them off so that a few elite MPs and selected people got rich.

Now the common people find it difficult to by a house, a morgage takes 25 years or more to pay, and during that time you cannot strike, or you risk loosing you house and all the money you put into it!

Conservative and New Labour have more or less the same goal, to keep their party rich, and keep the people down. So nobody will protest, think about it, do you ever see any real large scale political demonstrations/riots in the UK anymore?

I know I'm off subject here but I believe that the ideal of democratic-socialism is a good thing, if largely unattainable.
 
Last edited:
Yes, and every law the USA has is great. Now let's all start letting the government illegally wiretap us, raise the drinking age to 21 and stick us in prison for as long as they want without bringing any charges against us or giving us a trial :clap:
Isnt USA the paramount of democracy:lol:?:boozer:
 
Yes, and every law the USA has is great. Now let's all start letting the government illegally wiretap us, raise the drinking age to 21 and stick us in prison for as long as they want without bringing any charges against us or giving us a trial :clap:


Nice idea :rofl:
 
Im afraid we do not have a socialist government in the UK. Now the common people find it difficult to by a house, a morgage takes 25 years or more to pay, and during that time you cannot strike, or you risk loosing you house and all the money you put into it!
Conservative and New Labour have more or less the same goal, to keep their party rich, and keep the people down. So nobody will protest, think about it, do you ever see any real large scale political demonstrations/riots in the UK anymore?


Lol u r lucky u still have a socialist party :rofl: Italian one is actually dead like all italian politics.
About the rest, I cant say anything but : It's the same in Italy both about parties and common people and Italy has got a lot of problems more which i cba to write but I think everyone knows them, prolly not deeply.
Capitalism is leading itself to the death and Marx was fucking right in his predictions man.
The only thing missing ( very very very little thing i must admit ) is the proletarian revolution and then I'll be able to say that Marx = Nostradamus :lol:
 
Last edited:
"Socialism refers to a broad array of ideologies and political movements with the goal of a socio-economic system in which property and the distribution of wealth are subject to control by the public." - I'm afraid we do not have a socialist government in the UK. Of course, it depends what type of socialism you are refering to, but don't forget that Thatcher sold off most of the publicly owned utilities when she was in power. Before Thatcher this country owned a hell of alot more than it does now, and the money generated went back into the economy. She sold them off so that a few elite MPs and selected people got rich.

Now the common people find it difficult to by a house, a morgage takes 25 years or more to pay, and during that time you cannot strike, or you risk loosing you house and all the money you put into it!

Conservative and New Labour have more or less the same goal, to keep their party rich, and keep the people down. So nobody will protest, think about it, do you ever see any real large scale political demonstrations/riots in the UK anymore?

I know I'm off subject here but I believe that the ideal of democratic-socialism is a good thing, if largely unattainable.

I want to destroy your argument on so many levels, but not in this thread. If you're OK with my proposal, we can continue an argument about the merits of socialism by PM or a new thread?

Back on topic, the latest news from our dear (unelected) leader is this:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/06/17/brown_ippr_speech/

<sarcasm>

Of course, this has not in any way been prompted by the vast groundswell of public support for David Davis, despite the best efforts of the "liberal intelligentsia" to paint David Davis as a nutter / insane / egotistic etc...

</sarcasm>