I think this article - linked from the original - is a bit more disturbing ...Thuringwethil said:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1406347,00.html
Religion, eh?... Discuss
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http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1406347,00.html
Thuringwethil said:
No point me typing anything - agree with all of the above. Now theres a shock
yes but wint it wasnt just the church, it was the friends she made because of going to church, and she wasnt pressured into going to church, she needed some guidence which this church gave her.
She was strong, but she wasnt that strong, going to church made her feel better in herself for helping people, either singing to them in the choir at old folks homes or rasing money for people in bad need of money, and yes the money did go to the people, i know this cause one of the lasses that had a terminal disease, is still alive cause she got together with the church and helped raise the money needed for the operation that this girl needed.
This is what some kinds of religion can do, which v.good in my eyes. You are just thinking of the bad cases, ie holy killings, political religion etc, which isnt good. Religion should never come into politics as it just causes a hole loooaddd of problems.
She was strong, but she wasnt that strong, going to church made her feel better in herself for helping people, either singing to them in the choir at old folks homes or rasing money for people in bad need of money, and yes the money did go to the people, i know this cause one of the lasses that had a terminal disease, is still alive cause she got together with the church and helped raise the money needed for the operation that this girl needed.
This is what some kinds of religion can do, which v.good in my eyes. You are just thinking of the bad cases, ie holy killings, political religion etc, which isnt good. Religion should never come into politics as it just causes a hole loooaddd of problems.
tbh i think there is nothing wrong with religion as long as longs as it keep individual
people can practise at home what they want but it shouldnt be mixed with government / business
I find it insulting that people who are not religious pay indirectly for churches and other things through tax money, religious people should make sure they collect enough funds to pay for it themselves
in closing i dont have anything against religion i just think it is a tad silly
people can practise at home what they want but it shouldnt be mixed with government / business
I find it insulting that people who are not religious pay indirectly for churches and other things through tax money, religious people should make sure they collect enough funds to pay for it themselves
in closing i dont have anything against religion i just think it is a tad silly
Mughi said:
I saw another article about this whole issue somewhere recently - can't remember if it was The Times or the Register though.
Basically pointing out that we now have an education minister whose personal beliefs will lead her to push a creationist education agenda and put the government's education agenda in direct conflict with its science & technology, human rights and health agendas. That should prove most interesting...
Now how messed up is that. More joined-up thinking from the present bunch of nutters...
Dunno if anyone has been watching it, but there has been this fairly interesting series on TV recently called "History of Britain". Quite interesting for those wanting more background info. on why Catholics have been mistrusted when in positions of power in the UK in the way they have/are.
mute has got a point there. LOOK AT THIS THREAD. It's about RELIGION and expect what... it turned to FLAME. 
Tnega is right, just a waste of time&moneyTnega said:My belief.
Religion is a cult phenomenon.
Politics control religion.
Politics attempt to control people, ergo, religions attempt to control people.
stuff the lot and get on with the job of doing whatever you want to do.
have a good life.
Organised religion might well have more negative than positive effects in the world on the whole but to me it's just another way for people to avoid personal responsibility. There's not much difference between a god-botherer's desire to eschew culpability by following whichever version of the religious laws they have chosen and an atheist's lack of control over their desires and greed. I think generally the world would be a better place if we all gave a bit more of a shit about what we did and the consequences that follow. I also wish that RC would put kickidlers on their server and sort the mini out.
Hector said:
Apart from the fact that one of them is a figment of your imagination?
You are equating atheism with a lack of morality, which is simply not true. I suggest you read "Godless Morality" by Richard Holloway, the former episcopalian bishop of Edinburgh - it's very well written and completely debunks this ages old stereotype.
Wintermute said:
I don't think I've been clear: I'm not equating atheism with immorality I meant that being immoral isn't restricted to either believers or non believers and that rather than the removal of religion being the key to peace and harmony on earth we'd all do a lot better just to think about things more, the effects of our actions on others and ourselves. Being an atheist doesn't automatically lead to a Utopia. Shitty people are shitty regardless of their religious disposition., I just think you're putting the weight of the world on religion and I think there are many many other evils to take into account.
Sorry, I see what you are saying now.
I certainly don't believe that being an atheist leads to some sort of personal utopia. My own atheism has proven to be a very cold and clinical situation - when relatives have died, there is no consolation, no magical happy afterlife to make it all better. of course, I don't feel the need to make stuff up just to make the world a more fluffy place.
In contrast to however, I see nothing redeeming about religion. On a large scale, it's a repressive, regressive force dragging humanity backwards. Think about it - who objects to every medical breakthrough? from anasthesia to heart surgery to stem cell research, the backwards thinking small minded religious ones are the handbrake on society.
On a personal level, being religious diminishes your person. Your good acts become "god working through you" rather than a simple effect of your own personality, your failures become the "devil tempting you", rather than the actual fuckups that require personal responsibility to be taken.
Without even looking at the multitude of cults, plain old christianity or islam are some of the most debilitating mental illnesses that people can suffer from.
How about masturbation? having a wank, one of the wrist. feels good, good for you, and helps you to become a better lover in later life. What could possibly be wrong with it?
Ask *ANY* religion. every last one of them will tell you that the carnal desires of your body are wrong - because the "spiritual" aspects are more important. screw that.
if religion were wiped from the fae of the earth, it wouldn't be utopia... but it would be a million times better than it is now.
I certainly don't believe that being an atheist leads to some sort of personal utopia. My own atheism has proven to be a very cold and clinical situation - when relatives have died, there is no consolation, no magical happy afterlife to make it all better. of course, I don't feel the need to make stuff up just to make the world a more fluffy place.
In contrast to however, I see nothing redeeming about religion. On a large scale, it's a repressive, regressive force dragging humanity backwards. Think about it - who objects to every medical breakthrough? from anasthesia to heart surgery to stem cell research, the backwards thinking small minded religious ones are the handbrake on society.
On a personal level, being religious diminishes your person. Your good acts become "god working through you" rather than a simple effect of your own personality, your failures become the "devil tempting you", rather than the actual fuckups that require personal responsibility to be taken.
Without even looking at the multitude of cults, plain old christianity or islam are some of the most debilitating mental illnesses that people can suffer from.
How about masturbation? having a wank, one of the wrist. feels good, good for you, and helps you to become a better lover in later life. What could possibly be wrong with it?
Ask *ANY* religion. every last one of them will tell you that the carnal desires of your body are wrong - because the "spiritual" aspects are more important. screw that.
if religion were wiped from the fae of the earth, it wouldn't be utopia... but it would be a million times better than it is now.
Well as I've said before there are interpretations of 'god', 'devil' and the likes of 'carnal desires' that aren't really addressed in commonly understood religion today, and in those terms it all makes a bit more sense and actually comes a lot closer to the personal responsiblity that you and I- and anyone interested in a better world- basically aspire to, without the need for fluffy bearded cloud-sitters and afterlives of lying around with previously ferocious predators. ("The lamb will lie down with the lion, but the lamb won't get much sleep"- hoho)
I don't have a problem with religion per se because I don't actually believe that the modern day interpretations of it address its origins: I barely see it as religion at all, more a mass brainwashing. But even without that brainwashing people would still have to get to grips with their personal relationship with money, power, intolerance of other races, other counties, other cities, other streets, etc, and the list goes on. If there wasn't religion pushing people to live "better" lives (or plowing into skyscrapers) I think that there would be many more potential "opiates" dulling their perspectives and restricting their personal growth as useful inhabitants of a planet. I think what I'm basically saying is that religion is a symptom of something much more insidious; something in very our natures.
It's just the way I see it.
I don't have a problem with religion per se because I don't actually believe that the modern day interpretations of it address its origins: I barely see it as religion at all, more a mass brainwashing. But even without that brainwashing people would still have to get to grips with their personal relationship with money, power, intolerance of other races, other counties, other cities, other streets, etc, and the list goes on. If there wasn't religion pushing people to live "better" lives (or plowing into skyscrapers) I think that there would be many more potential "opiates" dulling their perspectives and restricting their personal growth as useful inhabitants of a planet. I think what I'm basically saying is that religion is a symptom of something much more insidious; something in very our natures.
It's just the way I see it.
Gen76 said:
I would think all it took was a severe distrust of the way the world turns and disillusionment with other avenues of life progression. Let's face it, wetend to think that there are mad people and sane people, with no grey area. We probably all think we're immensly psychologically strong and would never succumb to doubt or the effects of advertising. But anyone who's experienced a previously strong friend or family member end up in nervous breakdown mode should appreciate how delicate our brains can be.