Third British election debate...

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Useless

Bravo
Jun 14, 2002
5,886
63
Scotland
I was wondering if anyone watched it last night, like I did, and what they thought.

I read several things on the net afterwards which seemed to say that Cameron came out on top, but each of those articles was strongly disagreed with. It seems that people like me, not affiliated with any publications with their own political leanings, actually thought Clegg got the upper hand. Beforehand I was thinking of voting Labour, deciding that LibDem were a bit hazy on what they were doing (and probably wouldn't win anyway) and that not in a million years would I trust a Tory. But I was quite impressed by Clegg, more so than Brown, who made the mistake of shaking his head and smiling every time Cameron tried to nail him. The immigration bit was a sticky patch for Clegg, but he explained his position satisfactorily for me and he was right to repeat that Labour and Conservatives created the mess he now wants to try to clean up in his own way. Plus, Cleggs' points on the tax system were bang on.

Anyone else got any opinions?
 
Lib Dem - because I like to root for the underdog.

Every year it's the same, they are written off because people think they can't win - so they don't vote. It's rediculous. The same happens in the USA when the Reps/Dems say that voting for anyone else is a wasted vote. Well it wouldn't be if enough people did it.

It's impossible to believe the bollocks that they come out with in the debates anyway. Programmes such as Dispatches - Politicians For Sale and Gordon Browns gaff the other day being recorded just show how two faced and dishonest these people are. They don't believe the policies they talk about and have no intentions of getting into government to change things - they just want the power and the position.
 
Question:

Who has the biggest penis

Nick Clegg
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David Cameron
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Gordon Brown
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Hmm, way I see it is as follows:-

1. Labour - litany of broken promises, including a breach of a manifesto pledge to have a referendum on the Lisbon treaty. Most illiberal, anti-democratic, centralising and anti-liberal of the three main parties. Oh, and like all Labour governments, their rule has once again ended in economic crisis. Lets see, what's Labour previous on this: 1970s - Sunny Jim, IMF debacle. Further back, we had Harold Wilson, Sterling crisis and devaluation. Prior to that, Clement Atlee, and oh look, another Stirling crisis.

2. Lib Dems - their policies are drawn up by a party who never expect to get near power. And it shows. So, the mooted £25 billion to upgrade Trident nukes over the next 25 years is too much? And yet we spend £120 billion PER YEAR on the NHS and according to the government's own stats, more people still die of hospital acquired infections than die on the roads each year. Oh, and Clegg also breached a commitment to hold a referendum on the Lisbon treaty. Far from being the man of change, Clegg is actually a former Tory, whose wife is still pally with the Tories, specifically Chris Patten (last governor of Hong Kong) and his team. Clegg's own family is, like much of the labour front bench, replete with aristocratic lineage. Oh, and he also troughed tons of dough in his time as an MEP, whilst voting all the time for more power to be transferred away from the UK parliament to the unelected bodies of the EU. So much for his democratic credentials (further tarnished by confirming he'd prop up labour even if they came third in the popular vote). His chancellor, Vince Cable, is a former labour man and councillor of Scotland's most corrupt local authority, Glasgow City Council, whose former leader is currently being investigated on drugs and corruption charges. The last chancellor's debate saw the moderators rip Cable to shreds and expose all of his lies and hypocrisy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-grwkqnc1U).

Anyone who thinks the Lib Dems are a serious option and would be a good thing in terms of coalition government in the event of a hung parliament needs only to look to the years of the Lib-Lab coalition in Scotland, where the Lib Dems basically abandoned all their principles for a sniff of power.

3. Conservatives (Tories) - still dodging the referendum issues, but at least nice and clear on things like ID cards. Unfortunately for them, things are likely to play out the way they always do, as follows: Labour get in, wreck economy. Tories win next election, start to sort out Labour's mess. Voters, having forgotten who caused the mess in the first place, and unionised public sector workers, who forget who ultimately pays their wages, squeal and strike respectively, leading to the conservatives being voted out just as they are getting the economy on an even keel again. Rinse and repeat.

4. Other parties - except for the SNP in Scotland, none have a hope of getting enough seats to make any kind of difference to anything.

I saw a great quote on some forums the other day. It was along the lines of how democracy in the UK basically amounts to getting to vote for the identity of the person who is going to burgle your house.

Your options essentially boil down to:-

1. Vote Labour - i.e. vote for the party which has wrecked the economy and consistently broken all its previous election promises.

2. Vote Lib-Dem - i.e. vote for a bunch of hypocrites. A vote for the Lib Dems is basically a vote for Labour.

3. Vote Conservative - myriad faults of their own, but only real alternative to Labour.

4. Vote anyone else - waste of time.

5. Don't vote / spoil ballot paper - well, you deserve what you get then.
 
I find it a bit hilarious that the whole british election seems to be based on voting for the party that you dislike the least.
I watched an interview of some brits in the news, and it sounded like people pretty much have no faith at all in the political system, or they just don't care.
Is that really the general opinion?

If i was to compare it to somewhere else, you can take a look at pretty much any developing country...!
 
I find it a bit hilarious that the whole british election seems to be based on voting for the party that you dislike the least.
I watched an interview of some brits in the news, and it sounded like people pretty much have no faith at all in the political system, or they just don't care.
Is that really the general opinion?

If i was to compare it to somewhere else, you can take a look at pretty much any developing country...!

We recently had an expenses scandal involving MPs from all parties. That's why people have no faith.
 
Yeah, that scandal was mentioned as well. But how was it before that?

some of us felt that they were like that anyway. Politics is a career. The same things have happened as long ago as I can remember. The same old election promises but none of them ever see light of day.
 
I find it a bit hilarious that the whole british election seems to be based on voting for the party that you dislike the least.

Well that is kinda of being bred into everyone by the various campaigns/debates.

Question: Mr. Conservative, I've read your policy on X and I don't like Y.

Mr Conservative: Ahh good spot, you are a very handsome man, oh right, your question, a very good question it is, did you know Labour's policy on X features Y, Y, Y and, they called your mother a whore?

Swap Labour/Conservative at will.
 
I watched an interview of some brits in the news, and it sounded like people pretty much have no faith at all in the political system, or they just don't care.
Is that really the general opinion?

Pretty much. Take the current Labour party which is in power. The supposedly soft, cuddly, social liberal party.

The same party which led the UK into two wars of dubious legality which are going nowhere.

The same party which abolished payment of grants to, and tuition fees for, university students.

That just gives you a small flavour of why people are disillusioned with politicians in this country...
 
You're right, doh, it is based on whomever you dislike the least and has been for years, decades. I was arguing with my flatmate the other day about it and he was getting quite vocal about you must vote, you must vote. And I was asking why I'm being put in the position of having to vote for whichever guy sounds least like a cnut. Give me a party really worth voting for and I'll vote for them, don't just hand me the same shiny-faced clowns talking about values and standards and change and how rubbish the other parties are. I'd have more faith if politicians followed through on the promises they made (and they are promises), rather than looking for excuses as to why they can't actually do what they said they would, or just flat out lying. Time and again British politicians crap all over the poor sods who voted them in, the MP expenses one was maybe the best example of this (read up on it, it's worth it to learn of the sheer balls that these people have).

As far as I'm concerned, with the whole 'you must vote' thing I take the view that I also have the right not to vote. Maybe that's the best way to express disgust for politicians and their squabbles and lies. I don't like the apathetic thing of not voting, but what I Like even less is being butt-fucked by yet another bunch of interchangeable suits who don't mean anything they say. And, judging by the record lows in voting figures in recent British elections, it looks like I'm not the only one.

@ Cutter: Good points, I'm kind of glad I changed my mind about voting LibDem and didn't bother. As for the 'deserve what you get', you're absolutely right. If I don't vote I can't be surprised when things don't go my way. But when the only options you're presented with are all as bad as each other, why waste the effort? It sounds like a really nihilistic standpoint but it genuinely is where we find ourselves at every British election now. Things are getting worse, not better.
 
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