New movie coming soon.

[deadly]

Why pessimistic. Let the wars come. A few less mouths to feed. We're overpopulated anyway

@BReeNReeN => Yep, that must be the difference between you and me. There is a difference between pessimism and realism. I think its quite realistic that in the coming 30 - 60 years society will change and religion (Islam) will be ruling the western civilization. Ignoring the fact that this is happening just to temporarily esthablish peace and a silent civilization isn't the way we should be taking in my opinion.

 

[BRaiNRaiN]

@BReeNReeN => Yep, that must be the difference between you and me. There is a difference between pessimism and realism. I think its quite realistic that in the coming 30 - 60 years society will change and religion (Islam) will be ruling the western civilization. Ignoring the fact that this is happening just to temporarily esthablish peace and a silent civilization isn't the way we should be taking in my opinion.

Is the catholic part of the netherlands ruling The Netherlands at the moment? NO, it's rather the opposite to be honest. Who says that the islam will be ruling the western civilization? As far as i know there aren't any facts at the moment, but only prognoses and ideas. This has nothing to do with establishing peace, but only with facts that are currently active.

btw I'm following the debate atm: http://nos.nl/politiek24/

 

[BRaiNRaiN]

Just came across these sites in which it states the cruelties of the bible and another site with the comparisson of the bible and the quran, quite interesting tbh:

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html

http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2006/06/which-is-more-violent-bible-or-quran.html

 

[pykenike]

the prob. with the Islam is imo that the imams as they are called claim to speak for the whole islam when they say they adore Allah so much that they will die for them. I guess we get some sort of false view at the whole relligion because of that.
Tho i do find islamits in a lot of occasions not really tolerant against other relligions. There are tons of cartoons being made after the danish ones about the catholics and juws and so on and nothing happend because none really cared

but when there is an movie about them millions of islams scream holland has to be burned...

 

[pykenike]

http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=W3_qelW5qp4 btw

 

[deadly]

Is the catholic part of the netherlands ruling The Netherlands at the moment? NO, it's rather the opposite to be honest. Who says that the islam will be ruling the western civilization? As far as i know there aren't any facts at the moment, but only prognoses and ideas. This has nothing to do with establishing peace, but only with facts that are currently active.

btw I'm following the debate atm: http://nos.nl/politiek24/

Just came across these sites in which it states the cruelties of the bible and another site with the comparisson of the bible and the quran, quite interesting tbh:

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html

http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2006/06/which-is-more-violent-bible-or-quran.html

Sigh, your opinion is so biased... There is a difference between the current catholic or christian community and the current Islamic community. If you don't see that, then please watch Wilders his movie again. These are current facts aswell, and i don't see why you would compare two completely different views. The Bible does have violent phrases, most of them taken out of context though, but doesn't encourage violence towards other people like the Koran does. Also, the number of people taking your posted verses literally is alot smaller (or zero) than the Muslim extremists.

The reason i am saying this is not to generalize the Islamic community, i know that only 1% is extremist. I do fear the fact that in the coming 30-90 years this community will grow and grow (mostly because high Islamic teachers are extremist - people respect them). This isn't a current fact, i am aware of that. And tbh, i think thats where you fail: politics can't be dont just on current facts - if you do, you are closing your eyes for reality, very short sighted.

But then again, i expect you to respond yet again with saying that everything that i describe isnt a current fact and therefore to be ignored. It makes my laugh and cry at the same time (why do parties in NL exist that follow your view........ )

 

[BRaiNRaiN]

There is a difference between the current catholic or christian community and the current Islamic community. If you don't see that, then please watch Wilders his movie again.

Of course there is a huge difference. I never said that about the current religions. But when you compare the fear of islamic influences now and the fear of catholic influences several hundred years ago the differences arent that big.

The Bible does have violent phrases, most of them taken out of context though, but doesn't encourage violence towards other people like the Koran does. Also, the number of people taking your posted verses literally is alot smaller (or zero) than the Muslim extremists.

If you followed the discussion on television closely then you'd learn that most of the phrases in the Quran were also taken out of context, badly translated etc, just as the phrases in the Bible. But then again, both holy books also have phrases which are litteraly humiliating for mankind. I live in a very strict protestant village (one of the 4 villages in Holland that doesn't celebrate 4 may on a sunday, but move it to 3 may) and I talked to some people about this discussion and they confess that the bible is full of phrases which are really humiliating. In occasions the Bible is worse than the Quran: ie. Women who cheat on their husband are treated with a whip in the Quran while in the bible they can be stoned to death. It's true there are more muslim extremists than christian extremists. But why judge a book (the Quran) that's just as bad as another (Bible) book. instead of having a go at the people that believe in these books. Because Fitna has a go at the Quran, rather than anything else. I've always been told to look in the mirror before you accuse someone of their deeds and crimes.

The reason i am saying this is not to generalize the Islamic community, i know that only 1% is extremist. I do fear the fact that in the coming 30-90 years this community will grow and grow (mostly because high Islamic teachers are extremist - people respect them). This isn't a current fact, i am aware of that. And tbh, i think thats where you fail: politics can't be dont just on current facts - if you do, you are closing your eyes for reality, very short sighted.

Fear is what Wilders wants, it's what he feeds his political ideas on. It's not wrong to fear anything, but you must come with reasonable solutions. Solutions that will not harm the islamic society and their religion. Wilders only comes with really vigorous ideas, that deny our past as a tollerant nation. A nation in which everyone may believe what he or she wants. We even used this tollerant idea of freedom of religion in the time we ruled Brasil and other colonies. And they're thankful for that.

But then again, i expect you to respond yet again with saying that everything that i describe isnt a current fact and therefore to be ignored. It makes my laugh and cry at the same time (why do parties in NL exist that follow your view........ )

Be glad that there are parties with different ideas pete. It keeps the harmony in our society imho

 

[deadly]

Of course there is a huge difference. I never said that about the current religions. But when you compare the fear of islamic influences now and the fear of catholic influences several hundred years ago the differences arent that big.

Is this relevant? In the 'near' future i don't see anything coming up when it comes to the Christian mass. History doesn't always repeat itself - even if it does, being realistic about possible events is the least you can do.

If you followed the discussion on television closely then you'd learn that most of the phrases in the Quran were also taken out of context, badly translated etc, just as the phrases in the Bible. But then again, both holy books also have phrases which are litteraly humiliating for mankind. I live in a very strict protestant village (one of the 4 villages in Holland that doesn't celebrate 4 may on a sunday, but move it to 3 may) and I talked to some people about this discussion and they confess that the bible is full of phrases which are really humiliating. In occasions the Bible is worse than the Quran: ie. Women who cheat on their husband are treated with a whip in the Quran while in the bible they can be stoned to death. It's true there are more muslim extremists than christian extremists. But why judge a book (the Quran) that's just as bad as another (Bible) book. instead of having a go at the people that believe in these books. Because Fitna has a go at the Quran, rather than anything else. I've always been told to look in the mirror before you accuse someone of their deeds and crimes.

I know that most Quran verses are taken out of context by people who falsely accuse the book of being violent. I never said that everything wilders states in his movie is really relevant and/or true. I only said his point is a good one and should be seriously considered as a possible outcome of / in the near future.
Also, there is a big difference between the Quran and the Bible (in the current time). Wilders takes some verses out of its context, but so do extremist muslims, and thats where it gets dangerous. People take things out of context all the time, but when extremists actually do the same with their own religion and also do what one line literally sais, it will become dangerous.

Fear is what Wilders wants, it's what he feeds his political ideas on. It's not wrong to fear anything, but you must come with reasonable solutions. Solutions that will not harm the islamic society and their religion. Wilders only comes with really vigorous ideas, that deny our past as a tollerant nation. A nation in which everyone may believe what he or she wants. We even used this tollerant idea of freedom of religion in the time we ruled Brasil and other colonies. And they're thankful for that.

Fear is the only method Wilders can use to get into the mass' heads. Ofcourse he uses it, although i don't agree with everything. And yet again i don't agree with you on this one. The question in this case is 'what is reasonable?'. Compared with suicide bombing, killing innocent people, murdering cheating wives, etc - is limiting the amount of musqes really unreasonable? You could ask yourself thousands of questions, in the same range as the previous one. The most important question in the future will be if a 'reasonable solution' covers the danger of the Dutch natives.

Be glad that there are parties with different ideas pete. It keeps the harmony in our society imho

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