Jup @ Maxis.
And this @ Useless:
I can totally see where you are coming from. And please note that I am not even an 'environmentalist'. The whole thing just made me think, which is why am asking these questions.
> Yes, we do have that little influence on industry, if by 'we' you mean environmentalists.
Well yes, of course. But by 'we' I meant as many people as possible -> everyone who buys things... (for example if greenpeace had already reached the minds of 'everyone').
> What industry chooes protecting the environment over making money?
In the long run this doesn't have to be a choice you know? There might be a day when you can save ( '=' earn ) a shitload of money if you save energy. And you can earn another shitload if for green reasons your products become 10% more attractive to people (one day and maybe).
> Industry doesn't give a flying fuck about the environment,
> but they quite like selling stuff to those that do.
Well those are not the environmentalists tho. Those are people who want have peace of mind but don't know what really counts. Maybe I am one of them. And greenpeace can teach me something. That's a good thing, I'd say.
Environmentalists always go on about being part of the solution rather than part of the problem, which I think is what you mean with the peace of mind comment. But the way I see it, we don't owe it to future generations to do what we can for the environment. Past generations did owe it to us to allow us to come into a world not ravaged by pollution etc., but now the only thing we owe our kids (if we're dumb and selfish and shortsighted enough to have them) and the generations after us is an apology, since we've already fucked it into a cocked hat and now they'll have to deal with the mess we created.
I think that is faaar too easy.
- You are saying that past generations failed at preserving our present. So how can you say you want to turn away now? Why not learn from past mistakes? Past generations didn't even really know about the effects of their actions. We do. Why ignore that? That would make us a lot more guilty than the past generations.
- Your life is not over yet. What you will have created for your kids at the end of the day is not yet determined.
- How can I just apologize for something I didn't even do myself - and at the same time leave the problem untouched PLUS not apologize for exactly that??
- Don't get me wrong... I know that what you say makes sense! And most people sit on their bum thinking that way, being too lazy to act because their actions don't affect them themselves. (And again - this is just me thinking! I am not saying that I already got my ass up either! I am not saying that I buy the expensive but environmentally friendly stuff 24/7.
- But maybe I should start doing so, start making other people do the same and start watching prices drop?
- "It's not your fault, that the world is what it is - it's just your fault if it doesn't change"
> We don't deserve this place, not after the way we've treated it
You didn't have much time to treat it yet... You still have a few years left. That's the point. It does make sense to act now, because ->
> Clearing up litter etc. is great if it means fewer hedgehogs
> die or whatever the rationale is, but that sort of thing is only
> done so that the individual can feel good about themselves.
... because if
everyone started helping (again - which does not mean to give up personal freedom or whatever...) - and let it be because they want to feel good about themselves - one could see an effect. Old rationale but the logic is fine I think.
Just hard to achieve. But would be great to achieve.
And excuse me for asking, but what the fucking hell is Earth Week? What shite is this? Does that mean that every other week of the year is by definition not Earth Week? In other words it's more acceptable to litter in those 51 weeks, just don't do it in Earth Week? Look, either do your bit for the environment or don't; just don't patronise us with this pish.
If you got spammed with "your planet is valuable" every day... what would happen? Nothing.
If a few people pick a few days to remind a lot more people about that matter, then a few of those many might come to think. Things might change. Some are harder to convice and some make up their own minds.
So to answer your question: This 'shite' is what you make of it. Hopefully something.
> There is no solution, it's too late for that, and that's what
> I've been trying to say.
Well you made that very clear
But imo it is not that bad, yet.
Lemme close this posting.
I totally get the house on fire picture as well, but i think, not the whole house is burning yet. And I think we have a few buckets of water. They are just hard to lift.
